2018-06-15 01:30 投票进度11.11%
2018-06-15 01:42 投票进度16.9337% 主网启动！！！
投票进度瞬间加了5%+，到底发生了什么？
先看下EOS主网的区块浏览器：
#时间戳Pending生产者交易Confirmations739472Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:24 AMfalseargentinaeos00739471Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:23 AMfalseeosyskoreabp00739470Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:23 AMfalseeosyskoreabp00739469Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:22 AMfalseeosyskoreabp00739468Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:22 AMfalseeosyskoreabp00739467Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:21 AMfalseeosyskoreabp00739466Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:21 AMfalseeosyskoreabp00739465Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:20 AMfalseeosyskoreabp00739464Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:20 AMfalseeosyskoreabp00739463Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:19 AMfalseeosyskoreabp00739462Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:19 AMfalseeosyskoreabp00739461Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:18 AMfalseeosyskoreabp00739460Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:18 AMfalseeosyskoreabp00739459Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:17 AMfalseeosswedenorg00739458Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:17 AMfalseeosswedenorg00739457Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:16 AMfalseeosswedenorg00739456Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:16 AMfalseeosswedenorg00739455Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:15 AMfalseeosswedenorg00739454Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:15 AMfalseeosswedenorg00739453Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:14 AMfalseeosswedenorg00739452Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:14 AMfalseeosswedenorg00739451Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:13 AMfalsegenesisblock00739450Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:13 AMfalsegenesisblock20739449Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:12 AMfalsegenesisblock00739448Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:12 AMfalsegenesisblock10739447Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:11 AMfalsegenesisblock00739446Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:11 AMfalsegenesisblock10739445Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:10 AMfalsegenesisblock00739444Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:10 AMfalsegenesisblock00739443Jun 15, 2018, 1:41:09 AMfalsegenesisblock00可以到看，从区块739452开始，就开始由BP开始出块了，第一个块是瑞典节点eosswedenorg出的。时间是2018-06-15 01:41:14。
这个时间之前，到底是哪个大户投出了五千多个EOS的票呢？这里把区块739452之前几分钟的投票交易记录摘取出来：
区块账户操作余额739450hezdqobxgmgevoteproducer50739448gm3tombugugevoteproducer32,400,000739446ge3dkmbwgygevoteproducer25,339,101739378g43tamrzgegevoteproducer36739306ge4dgnrzgmgevoteproducer3,000739292ge4dgnrzgmgevoteproducer3,000739275ge4dgnrzgmgevoteproducer3,000739255ge4dgnrzgmgevoteproducer3,000739230ge4dgnrzgmgevoteproducer3,000739219hezdomrwgqgevoteproducer2739209ge4dgnrzgmgevoteproducer3,000739193ha2tsmbygugevoteproducer300很容易定位出投票大户：gm3tombuguge，ge3dkmbwgyge ，分别投了32,400,000 EOS和25,339,101 EOS。
这两个账户分别是EOS持仓排行的第7位和第8位，后者是BigOne的地址（也就是所有BigOne用户的EOS），前者应该是个人的地址，你应该猜出是谁的钱包了？
主网启动五人组：
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image.png![]()
image.png-------------------以下是我的流水账------------------------
2017-06-26 21:00:00 第一阶段众筹开始，持续5天，分发2亿代币，收到651902.18ETH
2017-07-01 21:00:00 第二阶段众筹开始，一共350期，每期23小时，持续时间350*23小时=335天零10小时，2017-06-02 07:00结束，分发7亿代币，收到6553200.75ETH
（众筹一共分发9亿代币，收到7205102.93ETH，按美元计约4197956135.18美元，一个EOS的平均成本约为：0.008ETH或4.66美元。）
2017-07-01 第一阶段众筹结束后，便在二级市场开始交易，开盘价格约1美元
2017-07-03 价格达到高点5.4美元
2017-09-15 EOSIO Dawn v1.0
2017-10-23 价格达到低点0.48美元
2017-12-05 EOSIO Dawn v2.0
2017-01-20 价格达到高点15.76美元
2017-03-18 价格达到低点3.95美元
2018-04-06 EOSIO Dawn v3.0
2018-04-29 价格达到高点22.89美元
2018-05-12 EOSIO Dawn v4.0
2018-05-19 EOSIO Dawn v4.1
2018-05-24 价格达到低点10.53美元
2018-05-26 EOSIO Dawn v4.2
2018-06-02 07:01 EOSIO v1.0 （https://medium.com/eosio/eosio-1-0-release-ca67ad3aa78f） 价格12.031美元
2018-06-02 开发者网站发布（developers.eos.io）
2018-06-03 04:46 EOSIO v1.0.1
主网启动流程（英文）：https://medium.com/@eosnewyork/eos-mainnet-launch-the-order-of-events-ed89a816beb8
主网启动流程（中文）：https://steemit.com/eos/@helloeos/eos-eos
EOS主网映射查询：
6月2日 “一条EOS主链共识”事件亲历记（https://forums.eosgo.io/discussion/1117/）
6月3日 06:00，冻结。价格14.568美元
6月3日 19:34，已经有5个BP和1个个人完成快照验证（https://github.com/eoscafe/eos-snapshot-validation）
6月5日 Guido Vranken提交8个EOS的bug获得8万美元奖励（https://hackerone.com/eosio）
6月5日 EOS Canada发布了最新动态，已经有86个BP参与到主网启动了（https://steemit.com/eos/@eos-canada/a-candidate-chain-and-recognizing-community-effort-eos-launch-update）
翻译版：https://bihu.com/article/574257
6月5日 关于EOS Ghostbusters/Core核心体系的一些随想（https://steemit.com/eos/@jemxpat/some-thoughts-about-the-eos-ghostbusters-core-architecture）
中文版：https://bihu.com/article/572633
6月5日 EOS Core/Ghostbusters团队发表致EOS候选节点的公开信（https://medium.com/@bensig/letter-to-eos-block-producer-candidates-184ef59a0748）
翻译版：https://bihu.com/article/574872
6月7日 投票结果NOT-GO（https://status.producer.vote/）
6月8日 投票结果NOT-GO，等1.0.2
6月9日 投票结果GO
19:56:30 区块2 https://eostracker.io/blocks/2
22:14:29 区块12151 https://eostracker.io/blocks/12151
6月10日 21点上线（https://steemit.com/eos/@eosnewyork/the-eos-mainnet-is-live）
21:04:37 区块15117 https://eostracker.io/blocks/15117
6月11日 投票进度2.8%
6月12日 投票进度5.14%
6月13日 投票进度7.2%
https://support.bitfinex.com/hc/en-us/articles/360005780034 Bitfinex 刚发布了启动15%的方案
gate也紧跟着发布了公告 gate.io将为EOS主网启动贡献投票份额 https://gateio.io/article/16509
火币跟上 火币全球站将启动对当前EOS候选主链投票的公告 https://www.huobi.pro/zh-cn/notice_detail/?id=1839
Chaince跟上 关于 EOS 主网投票公告 https://chaince.zendesk.com/hc/zh-cn/articles/360005889793-%E5%85%B3%E4%BA%8E-EOS-%E4%B8%BB%E7%BD%91%E6%8A%95%E7%A5%A8%E5%85%AC%E5%91%8A
6月14日 投票进度10.2%
6月15日 启动
6月16日 主网出现暂停
13:53:53 区块1027597 https://eostracker.io/blocks/1027597
13:56:38 区块1027926 https://eostracker.io/blocks/1027926
6月17日
金色财经对话EOS爸爸的爸爸 https://www.jinse.com/blockchain/203772.html
eon在币赢coinw开放交易
6月18日
6月19日
meetone在龙网开放交易
还有eop？
6月20日
gate开发eos充提，日限额10eos。
gateiowallet是gate的eos账户名。
bitfinex开放eos充提！！！
gate日限额改为1000EOS
6月21日
http://pandafun.io/
BM新文章：https://medium.com/@bytemaster/decentralized-blockchain-governance-743f0273bf5a
Bean神文章：【原创】交易所投票是否有猫腻 https://bihu.com/article/711883
【BM故事】为什么我放弃了基督教：https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzUyNjcwMjY3NQ==&mid=2247483722&idx=1&sn=6629770b1f7cb5837b3ff3f01d7afa67
BM:Why, why, why?：http://btsabc.org/article-296-1.html
BM再发雄文：自由需要彻底的透明或彻底的隐私吗？：https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzAxNTIwNTEwMQ==&mid=2650185909&idx=1&sn=1661ba731401a5dd223dfc0c6876ec30
BM博客：http://bytemaster.github.io/
Kraken开放EOS充提
投zb的1300万票赎回了
刘晓蕾教授等6位候选人申请EOS仲裁员
6月22日
BM：如果发现交易所有不正当行为，Block.one会动用10%的票仓
https://www.eosrp.io/
6月24日
RAM炒作
6月27日
6月28日
BP例会，RAM站位列入回忆内容
【EOS硅谷分享】BM重磅发文：代码的意图才是法律：https://m.bihu.com/article/768746
Daniel Larimer, [28.06.18 10:36]
You all should make commitment to increase ram by at most 5% per week.
Daniel Larimer, [28.06.18 10:37]
We can update system contract
Daniel Larimer, [28.06.18 10:37]
So producer set rate of growth rather than absolute supply
Daniel Larimer, [28.06.18 10:38]
Minimize supply induced swings
由于社区讨论激烈，RAM被调至会议首个议题。
不过并未达成什么共识，需要进一步研究。
6月29日
EOS Nation卖出部分，并做了解释。https://t.me/EOSGov/74240
EOS超级矿工，https://party.eosmonitor.io/
https://party.eosmonitor.io/account/bitcellprim3 交易笔数3万+
https://party.eosmonitor.io/accounts 注册用户2千+
Luke Stokes, [29.06.18 10:18]
[In reply to jem]
I’m a bit confused myself. I asked a few questions about how the RAM market is supposed to function and what BPs are expected to do with regards to allocation, but got no response. Kind of disappointed at the moment. I’d like to help people launch cool stuff on EOS. Not sure what to tell them about RAM right now.
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 11:28]
[In reply to Luke Stokes]
All we did is create a free market for a scarce resource. Anything we do to force prices lower will only end up distorting the market.
https://t.me/EOSGov/72888
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 21:27]
[In reply to Roland]
Ram speculation only profit if dapps buy
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 21:30]
Then we should implement capital gains fee on ram trading
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 21:32]
[In reply to t78]
Speculation will buy
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 21:33]
[In reply to Yhim]
No. Fee proportional to profit made
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 21:33]
Not sell price.
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 21:33]
Buy high sell at same price. No fee
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 21:33]
Buy low sell high. High fee
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 21:34]
Buy high sell low. No fee
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 21:45]
A minimum hold period would reduce volume and speculation. Combined with capital gains could make sense.
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 21:47]
30 days.
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 21:47]
I think capital gains is necessary with min hold or people will just rehypothicate it
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 21:52]
[In reply to Roland]
Min hold will just create a middle man
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 21:52]
Capital gain makes middle man more complex
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 21:54]
Yes which is why combo is good
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 21:55]
Existing holders would have to be grandfathered
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 21:56]
[In reply to Jesse]
Yes. We can automate a smooth release
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 21:56]
[In reply to Jesse]
Continuous release
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 21:57]
[In reply to Bluejays - EOS Go / EOSRad.io]
If you assume some are already taxed 50% by their government
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 21:58]
I think 10% is enough
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 22:04]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
Meaning their cost basis is current price
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 22:05]
We cannot retroactively change terms on existing holders.
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 22:11]
[In reply to Jesse]
They could sell once. Holding period enforce after 30 days
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 22:33]
[In reply to SilverCrypto80]
What do you think happens when eos is taken out of circulation by ram buyers
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 22:33]
[In reply to Zed]
That ties ram to eos price.
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 23:15]
[In reply to Sengoku]
And when eos moons like everyone wants. What then.
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 23:25]
Ram volume is offsetting all inflation
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 23:28]
Throw in capital gains and all eos holders benefit from ram growth.
Daniel Larimer, [29.06.18 23:32]
[In reply to Dreambaked]
Burning it is for greater good
https://t.me/eosram/2290
123eoswuchao抛售了大部分RAM
6月30日
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:25]
After doing more thinking on capital gains + 30 day hold I have concluded that the market would quickly bypass the hold and likely postpone the gains fee almost indefinitely. Attempts to artificially restrict the market are almost futile.
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:26]
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:26]
every risk can be offset by another conract
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:28]
also, I think changing things is dangerous in such a young market. We probably need to watch and learn vs draw conclusions in the first inning
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:29]
[In reply to Urius - EOSTalks - EOS Phoenix]
you keep saying that... that is like saying iPhones are not a free market because only apple makes them.
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:29]
and so is the blockchain and side chain market
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:30]
it is a VOLUNTARY market... one side is the community the other side the RAM buyers
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:31]
the community uses a market maker to always buy and sell at a price the market is willing to pay
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:31]
so the options are for the community to increasing pricing on the initial sale (tweak Bancor parameters) or let the market do it.
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:32]
either way you end up with the same result... RAM selling at market set prices
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:32]
EOS and RAM are not the only blockchains
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:33]
all blockchains will suffer from speculators bidding up resources
Crouching Lambo, [30.06.18 00:33]
besides let's be honests here, significant RAM price means more quality dapps
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:33]
yes
vint, [30.06.18 00:33]
let market solve it
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:33]
highest use
Roland, [30.06.18 00:33]
Developers will be driven to other blockchains that is economically viable to develop DAPPs on
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:33]
it means incentive to increase RAM, incentive to create side chains, incentive to use RAM more effeciently
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:34]
[In reply to Roland]
and what will make them economically viable? How do those chains get more RAM? How do they get more bandwidth?
Noble-117, [30.06.18 00:34]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
Hey! We speculators are part of the community, too.
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:34]
everyone is doing their part
Roland, [30.06.18 00:34]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
What about incentives to keep them RAM scarce.. like DeBeers does with diamonds?
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:35]
[In reply to Roland]
that will hurt EOS price by reducing demand for actual transactions which require staked EOS... this will cause EOS voters to vote for producers that increase supply
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:38]
everyone wants to control the price to their favor... everyone wants to begrudge other people's profits
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:38]
everyone had a chance to unstake and buy
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:38]
the tools were there
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:38]
it didn't go up instantly
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:39]
it took days of gradual growth before big spikes started
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:39]
there were weeks of time to learn about th emarket
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:40]
yeah... coal is expensive and represents friction for my new business.
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:41]
the market is pricing in future demand
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:45]
Most apps don't need much RAM
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:46]
if you APP requires a lot of RAM-per-user you are doing it wrong
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:46]
EOS will have many side chains
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:46]
that will bring down the cost of RAM
Roland, [30.06.18 00:46]
how are you going to build the future decent FB if u dont have enough RAM?
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:47]
[In reply to Roland]
I'll show you with our steem 2.0
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:47]
demand for RAM creates demand for EOS to buy RAM
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:48]
so all EOS holders benefit from RAM
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:48]
Look at the eosio.forum contract, it doesn't even have to store anything in RAM
Samupaha, [30.06.18 00:49]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
What's the reason why we can't rent RAM?
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:49]
Most apps need at most a couple KB of RAM per user.
M Legacy, [30.06.18 00:49]
If ram becomes a massive market and token holders weren’t given their allocated share there will be contention for giving the farm away.
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:49]
[In reply to Samupaha]
because ram cannot be freed on demand
Roland, [30.06.18 00:50]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
how much RAM does a DAPP need if it wants to issue an ERC20 type of token?
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:50]
[In reply to M Legacy]
if it does, then the RAM fees from trading will pay huge dividends to EOS holders
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:50]
it is already paying to offset all inflation
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:50]
[In reply to Roland]
256 bytes per user
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:51]
won't people be surprised to see that EOS supply is deflationary rather than inflationary due to RAM, Name, Symbol auctions
Samupaha, [30.06.18 00:51]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
It doesn't need to. The rent can become debt if the account doesn't have tokens to pay for it. When the account gets tokens again, debt will be paid from those tokens.
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:52]
[In reply to Samupaha]
then I rent all your ram, consume it, and abandon account...
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:52]
the cost to rent RAM is to buy it when you start to need it and sell it when done... perhaps negative cost to rent
Gavin, [30.06.18 00:53]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
very valid point... i would like to see BPs actively voting to use those funds though. I don't want us to be like Apple and just sit on a mountain of cash. I'd rather be like Amazon and focus all resources on exponential growth
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:54]
[In reply to Gavin]
then full node operators will bitch and moan... producers are still shifting as votes come in. There are many factors in play here and everyone will need to give the market time to work it out
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:55]
not just BP... but every DAPP dev that needs to operate a full node
Roland, [30.06.18 00:57]
Dan, I seriously urge u to reconsider at least implementing a min hold period to deter speculators. Just as a deterrence
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:57]
We will provide an update to the system contract that allows producers to ease RAM supply growth over time
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 00:58]
[In reply to Roland]
that will backfire, move market away from default market and cause EOS token holders to lose their modest fee
Gavin, [30.06.18 00:59]
you know what's cool... these discussions will be looked back at for years. Political Scientists and Psychologist will be pulling data from these discussions for a long long time. Case studies galore
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 01:00]
it will allow producers to set a new target supply and have the current supply grow at 1% per day until the new target is hit.
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 01:02]
I would argue that changing the RAM increase algorithm does not require referendum since the producers are entirely in control of setting it now
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 01:02]
it just automates what they could do manually
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 01:03]
yep
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 01:03]
it takes up dev cycles to implement things
BXB Chain, [30.06.18 01:04]
@daniellarimer - any time line on the quantitive easing of RAM
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 01:04]
every change, will create a new problem and will demand a new change.
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 01:04]
[In reply to BXB Chain]
ask Alan Greenspan
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 01:11]
lol
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 01:11]
I could use a few side dans as well
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 01:13]
A well designed DAPP will be able to cover the cost of new users
BXB Chain, [30.06.18 01:14]
@daniellarimer - you mean a well designed dApp that asks people to claim their dApp tokens and puts the RAM burden on the user?
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 01:15]
[In reply to BXB Chain]
I mean that B1's DAPP will give each user an account with sufficient RAM for our APP.
Ram Vish, [30.06.18 01:15]
RAM trading is genius
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 01:15]
Says Ram Vish
Ram Vish, [30.06.18 01:15]
Lol
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 01:15]
[In reply to Josep - JR - eosBarcelona]
everything in REAL RAM that is how it gets the performance it has
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 01:16]
I wouldn't increase RAM for 30 days
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 01:16]
I'd let everyone figure out the impact of everything, get settled in
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 01:16]
a well designed dApp is self-funding
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 01:17]
apps that have tokens should be able to use said tokens to buy RAM
Daniel Larimer, [30.06.18 01:18]
B1 plans to eat our own dog food
https://t.me/eosram/2924
7月2日
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:12]
[In reply to Green77]
they are saving RAM for future DEVS
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:13]
other wise the geedy early-adopter devs would consume all the ram, likely wastefully
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:14]
when ever one calls someone else greedy, they are really revealing their own greedyness when they demand someone be selfless
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:14]
who benefits from the demand that others be selfless? The greedy person demanding the selfless behavior of others
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:18]
The speculators are doing early-adopter devs a favor, imagine you built your app expecting cheap RAM along with 1000 other devs... eventually real ram usage will increase price to the point that your DAPP is no longer profitable. Excapt without speculators you couldn't know that your DAPP was not viable before you started and then you lose money.
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:19]
free markets tend to allocate scarce resources to the highest purpose
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:19]
including factoring in saving for the future
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:20]
rather than complain about the price, think about what the price is telling you about expected future demand
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:21]
is your dapp still viable after 32 GB of RAM have been consumed by other real dapps?
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:21]
if not, it may not have the staying power it needs
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:21]
of course the RAM supply will grow over time, but speculators are pricing that in
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:22]
Their bet is that real usage + speculation demand will grow faster than increasing supply
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:23]
the only reason some people got 5x is because the initial pricing estimate was too low. Because we tried to make RAM available cheaper than market price.
SilverCrypto80, [01.07.18 22:27]
The only thing I don't like is bps selling the eos they get for free from being a BP and buying ram. Seems like they are double dipping. Do I see this the wrong way?
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:27]
they didn't get the EOS for-free
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:27]
they had to earn that EOS by campaigning and winning votes
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:27]
did you get your salary for "Free"?
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:27]
many producers invested for months with 0 pay
Green77, [01.07.18 22:29]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
If you have analyzed it and know the root cause then change it!
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:29]
[In reply to Green77]
now that we have market price, it has fixed itself
Green77, [01.07.18 22:32]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
It’s not all about profit- EOS means more like an tech revolution - I thought you have some idealistic views with vitalik
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:33]
[In reply to Green77]
and a sustainable tech revolution requires sound economics. Unsound economics will tank a tech revolution faster than they tank Chile or Argentina or Zimbabee
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:34]
it is called buy and hold
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:34]
or perhaps buying options
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:34]
but options requires someone else to buy and hold
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:34]
naked options can default
moonwalker, [01.07.18 22:34]
not everyone has that much cash now
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:35]
[In reply to moonwalker]
people are not entited to things just because they are in need
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:37]
as a dev builing a real product you have inside info on future demand for real RAM... if you think your product will be a success you should buy RAM now then create the demand for it.. then profit
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:37]
if your idea is good enough, find investors to do the same
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:38]
we will enable producers to introduce continuous RAM supply growth so as to minimze shocks to market and eliminate opportunity for insider trading accusations
SilverCrypto80, [01.07.18 22:40]
On a pre defined schedule. Like when x gets to y ram increases?
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:40]
yes, on a schedule based on time not another gamable metric
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:44]
the producers will control the rate-of-change to track market growth in RAM technologies, but this rate-of-change will be in a very narrow window
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:44]
I don't think RAM should grow for a couple of months
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:45]
There are many factors we must consider
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:45]
it isn't just about producers, it is about devs and 3rd parties as well
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:45]
the entire market needs time to figure out infrastructure and growth plans
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:48]
Here is what I can say, that B1 will work to provide tech solutions that increase the effeciency of RAM and the supply
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:48]
We need time to test the software at larger sizes
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:49]
Slow and steady wins the race
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:52]
For example, devs using iMac Pro's are limited to 128GB machines...
Petr Capek, [01.07.18 22:53]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
dan what you mean with this? I would like to do more gains..but cant if the ram price dont grow..:(
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:53]
@Njeel I don't care abut your gains
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:55]
my goal is to produce tech that make RAM speculators losses because of rapidly growing supply
Michael L, [01.07.18 22:56]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
How does ram rapidly grow if bps use a throttling mechanism to introduce new ram to the ecosystem?
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 22:56]
[In reply to Michael L]
side chains
Doc_Worm, [01.07.18 22:58]
Another posibility may be to introduce some randomness to RAM prices. Pros and cons
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:00]
[In reply to Doc_Worm]
no pros... all cons.. just increases market ineffeciency
rektkid, [01.07.18 23:05]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
it seems unfair that devs should have to pay higher ram prices due to speculators?
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:06]
[In reply to rektkid]
did you read the discussion above...
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:06]
specualtors do devs a favor by showing them the true value of the resources they wish to consume
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:07]
prevent devs from building unsustanable apps
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:08]
less srous dapps can launch on their own chain and side-chain to EOS
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:32]
[In reply to Everett]
as price increases, market demand for additional chains grows
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:33]
we can lower RAM costs by increasign CPU costs
rektkid, [01.07.18 23:34]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
that makes more sense.. but is there now no possible way an eos account can be created for zero cost?
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:35]
[In reply to rektkid]
think man... if anything were 0 cost... what would happen?
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:36]
[In reply to P J]
someone had to pay a fee to send you funds, and you have to pay a fee to send them on
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:37]
those 2 fees are the cost of the account
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:38]
Average Eth transaction fee in USD is over 1 which means it costs2 for an account to hold funds for 1 transaction
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:39]
Do 100 transactions and an ETH account costs you $100
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:40]
Do 100 EOS transactions and it costs you $5 for RAM... and you can sell your account when done
P J, [01.07.18 23:40]
and that is for life time
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:40]
yes
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:41]
I think there will be a big market for selling used accounts for their RAM
rektkid, [01.07.18 23:41]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
I just cant get my head around expecting your average Joe to spend $5 on an EOS account, and the having to top up his ram to use more and more dapps.
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:42]
The average Joe user won't spend $5, busiensses will give them an account to use and make money some other way
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:42]
it is even possible to "rent-to-own" an account
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:45]
The apps B1 producers aim to target average Joe
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:45]
we just need to make sure the value to Joe is high
Rob Finch - Cypherglass.com (Block Producer), [01.07.18 23:46]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
Does B1 have a plan to give free accounts to new users of their dApps?
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:46]
We are hoping to do that, or at least keep fee low. We will not be taking a loss on our activities.
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:47]
Only one APP needs to justify Joe getting an account, then he can use that account across many DAPPs
rektkid, [01.07.18 23:47]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
Surely Joe needs to keep topping up ram in order to use more dapps?
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:48]
depends on the dapp
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:49]
Joe is a big boy, the market will mature, the price will stabilize
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:49]
Joe might even enjoy making money on his RAM growing
Xjoe Chibuike, [01.07.18 23:49]
Joe has suffered
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:50]
Joe has benefited
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:50]
Joe won't even know about RAM if DAPP is designed right
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:50]
B1 certaintly won't be putting RAM in his face
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:51]
No need to RAM it down users throats ... .;)
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:52]
I for one am happy to see RAM trading offsetting all producer pay+some
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:52]
for example, the steem app would easily self-fund the RAM
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:53]
you think new users signing up to Reddit don't cost them RAM + STORAGE for YEARS?
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:55]
I for one welcome our new RAM owning overlords...
Daniel Larimer, [01.07.18 23:56]
[ Photo ]
DOGE RAM
https://t.me/eosram/5842
7月2日
A3 FTM, [02.07.18 18:35]
Hey Dan, thanks for creating the golden goose!
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 18:36]
[In reply to A3 FTM]
That’s what I do
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 18:38]
When. Meeting
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 18:38]
Where meeting
Kevin Rose - EOS New York, [02.07.18 18:39]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
We will give you the zoom link, if you’d like.
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 18:39]
Ok
A3 FTM, [02.07.18 18:41]
Adding RAM should be because the network NEEDS more RAM, not because BP's or devs want cheaper RAM
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 18:43]
[In reply to A3 FTM]
Yep. Speculators are already pricing in future ram.
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 18:44]
The effective ram supply for market cap is 2tb.
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 18:44]
The producers are merely keeping it off the market waiting for higher price
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 18:46]
Producers should trickle it in
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 18:48]
Look. I don’t recommend and trading advice for individuals. I’m merely saying producers shouldn’t attempt to flood market
rektkid, [02.07.18 18:50]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
Are there technical limits that stop them doing so?
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 18:51]
[In reply to rektkid]
Yes at some point
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 18:52]
My advice is only to let market determine price. To consider market is pricing in future supply
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 18:54]
2.5m eos has been spent on ram
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 18:55]
One way to reduce ram price is to introduce derivatives which soak up demand
Petr Capek, [02.07.18 18:57]
Ram price can not decrease- just going up for us!!!!
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 18:57]
Eos token holders are getting profits from selling ram.
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 18:59]
[In reply to Petr Capek]
It can decrease.
Blue, [02.07.18 19:00]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
yet to my understanding, you think long term it has got to go up, right?
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:00]
[In reply to Blue]
Long term it’s a commodity
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:02]
Who do you think receives proceeds from selling and trading ram ?
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:04]
Eos has cornered ram trading market and is earning all exchange fees
Lucas, [02.07.18 19:05]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
This earning is planned to be use for what ?
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:05]
[In reply to Lucas]
I’d take it out of circulation
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:06]
We can enable leverage trading of ram.
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:10]
How much does eth collect in fees per day
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:13]
Eth generates 1.5 million per day in fees.
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:14]
I predict that eos will generate more from ram trading
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:16]
Producer pay is independent
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:17]
An account owned by eosio
Bit Cutie, [02.07.18 19:17]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
thanks ... does that mean ram fees are eos thats taken out of circulaion forever? so that means it will offsef the inflation?
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:18]
[In reply to Bit Cutie]
Yes
rektkid, [02.07.18 19:18]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
So the fees collected are burned?
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:18]
Yes.
Andrey Durakov - letitplay.io, [02.07.18 19:22]
In what case BPs are going to add additional RAM? Is there any critical amount of RAM sold when will it happen?
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:23]
[In reply to Andrey Durakov - letitplay.io]
Once all systems are tested for more ram.
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:24]
Ram speculation is betting against tech
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:24]
Moore’s law
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:25]
And software will increase ram supply over time
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:25]
Side chains.
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:25]
There is huge incentive to create ram scaling solutions
ac, [02.07.18 19:25]
can dapps shop around for ram on sidechains in the future?
W, [02.07.18 19:26]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
正在使用发音
How much do you think the RAM usage rate will be considered
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:26]
[In reply to ac]
If they don’t mind running there
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:26]
[In reply to W]
It should be ignored as it’s easily faked
Warren Buffetti, [02.07.18 19:27]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
Dan, I still think RAM is very cheap. Will you consider lowering the supply if the price does not go up?
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:27]
[In reply to Warren Buffetti]
Supply cannot be lowered
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:29]
Eth avg fee per trx is $4
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:29]
Insane
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:31]
Cheaper than airdrop on eth.
Daniel Larimer, [02.07.18 19:33]
I knew speculators would speculate
https://t.me/eosram/7126
7月3日
币安开放提现eos
heztanrqgene 13392773.465000002
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 10:59]
How many addresses
Maximilian Greenfield, [03.07.18 11:02]
dan, how much to airdrop too 1billion adress's with a ram cost of 0.5?
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:03]
[In reply to Maximilian Greenfield]
On eth that’s 4 billion and years.
Ferdous Bhai, [03.07.18 11:03]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:04]
5kb per account
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:05]
How many crypto users world wide
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:06]
If we have 1 million real accounts we are likely bigger than bitcoin real users.
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:06]
Or 15 million
Sam J, [03.07.18 11:08]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
Dan please keep reiterating the difference between a one time cost and the repeated gas costs on ETH. People are not as smart as you think. You heard how it silenced the Zoom call. More people need to hear
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:08]
Exactly
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:08]
The amortization of cost
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:09]
And you can sell when done
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:09]
What is resell value of eth account
Gavin, [03.07.18 11:10]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
can you explain this in a bit more detail please? i was trying to explain earlier in other ram group and couldn't do it or find the reference of where it had been explained before
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:11]
[In reply to Gavin]
Sell account
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:11]
Not ram in account
Ajroc whm, [03.07.18 11:11]
eth account fee because of the FCOIN deposit
Ajroc whm, [03.07.18 11:11]
users are free
Ajroc whm, [03.07.18 11:12]
EOS account won’t help poor people
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:12]
[In reply to Ajroc whm]
No. It costs money to create new account in gas.
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:12]
[In reply to Ajroc whm]
Tesla’s don’t help poor people either
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:13]
Oh wait. They fund tech which enable model 3
Gavin, [03.07.18 11:14]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
the question that got brought up was in regards to like a failed dapp.. so if a developer failed they would still be able to basically salvage dapp by selling account and the ram could then be re-used and not wasted?
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:14]
Yep
Sam J, [03.07.18 11:15]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
But Dan, please don’t let them try to give away the Ram.fees account. I can see them coming for it. That needs to be burned
Ferdous Bhai, [03.07.18 11:30]
[In reply to Sam J]
+1
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:33]
[In reply to Ferdous Bhai]
Agree
ac, [03.07.18 11:36]
volatility is great for fees
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:36]
[In reply to ac]
Yep
Red giant, [03.07.18 11:38]
Dan what you think the actual price of ram should be?
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:38]
[In reply to Red giant]
Exactly what market says
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:40]
Eos currently running at -2% inflation
Rex Ignis, [03.07.18 11:40]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
I’m afraid in the near future when the market needs to go down to look for an equilibrium, ppl would come and bitch about it too
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:41]
[In reply to Rex Ignis]
Only two things are certain in life. Bitching and death.
JEE, [03.07.18 11:42]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
Yo Dan i was looking for you the whole time. I have a question about ICO based on EOS ecosystem. Is it possibe ?
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:43]
When someone launches one
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:43]
[In reply to JEE]
Yes
Henry Ekerendu, [03.07.18 11:44]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
what if we get to 100% RAM utilization? what happens
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:44]
Impossible
Red giant, [03.07.18 11:44]
I think every member in this group are enjoying ram trading.
But dan i have one question if we sell ram then from where we are getting eos?
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:45]
[In reply to Red giant]
From previous buyer
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:45]
Eosio.ram account
Red giant, [03.07.18 11:46]
Oh then ram trading generates some fees for whom?
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:46]
[In reply to Red giant]
For net work
Red giant, [03.07.18 11:47]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
Who is the owner of that? Bps?
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:47]
No one. Eosio account
Henry Ekerendu, [03.07.18 11:47]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
Dan I fear it's only the likes of Facebook that will be building on EOS due to cost imperative
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:48]
Still cheapest chain around
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:48]
And it will only get cheaper in long run
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:48]
Ram is great demo app
Rex Ignis, [03.07.18 11:48]
[In reply to Henry Ekerendu]
Giants like FB would definitely start a sidechain first of all
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:49]
[In reply to Rex Ignis]
Probably several
斌, [03.07.18 11:52]
the real market is more complex, there are many factors that make influences on price, bancor can not combine all of the factors.
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:53]
[In reply to 斌]
Bancor doesn’t speculate. It lets traders arb info
Red giant, [03.07.18 11:54]
I think sudden huge selling by a single person has no effect on bancor algo?
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:54]
[In reply to Red giant]
Nope.
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:54]
More fees for us
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:55]
Eos generated about 1million dollars in profit in last 24 hrs
Justin - EOS Silicon Valley, [03.07.18 11:55]
@daniellarimer do you still think ram is cheap at this price?
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:56]
[In reply to Justin - EOS Silicon Valley]
I don’t speculate
Red giant, [03.07.18 11:57]
Dan can we built dex exchange on bancor algo?
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:57]
After using this market the speed and performance and liquidity are better than centralized exchanges
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:57]
[In reply to Red giant]
The best ever
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:58]
See example with trustless margin trading
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:58]
Working to perfect it with tests
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:59]
Also have pegged assets
Justin - EOS Silicon Valley, [03.07.18 11:59]
@daniellarimer the 20% suggested ram inflation per year. Is this based on some math? How did you come to this number :-)
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 11:59]
And predict markets
Red giant, [03.07.18 11:59]
Is it like a future trial of bancor algo. I have seen their whitepaper. What will happen if 100 % ram is bought? 100%cw?
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:00]
[In reply to Justin - EOS Silicon Valley]
Annual increase in real ram computers can hold
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:00]
[In reply to Red giant]
Not possible
Wiliam wong, [03.07.18 12:00]
now .5eos per kb ram, is that expensive?
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:01]
[In reply to Wiliam wong]
Is 10 angels on the head of a pin crowded.
wsdfz z, [03.07.18 12:13]
I just want to know how to expand ram smoothly. If put 5% ram directly into pool, ram price will change a lot. Is there any plan to expand ram without changing the price ?
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:15]
[In reply to wsdfz z]
Yes. Smooth growth minute by minute.
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:17]
Eos cornered exchange market in ram with most liquidity
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:18]
Will generate more income for network than eth does
ZhiWang, [03.07.18 12:24]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
It is suggested that the holders of RAM be allocated proportionately when they are expanded.
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:24]
Nope
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:25]
[In reply to ZhiWang]
Eos holders get benefit of new ram
Nic, [03.07.18 12:25]
Dan if I'm not mistaken. If ram is added by the bps to the network? How comes it takes months to do so? Isn't it just upgrade ram size on the bps server?
Henry Ekerendu, [03.07.18 12:25]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
Dan if you are so sure of everything you are saying...then take it from me, you are the smartest computer scientist alive
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:26]
[In reply to Nic]
Every full node
Sam J, [03.07.18 12:26]
Dan, I came up with an analogy: it’s like why Hotdogs inside Madison Square Garden cost $10 but they only cost .50c outside on the street...agree? Lol
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:27]
[In reply to Henry Ekerendu]
Not really. Many are far better at computer Science. I’m interdisciplinary
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:27]
[In reply to Sam J]
Good one
CTurns, [03.07.18 12:27]
Will the increase in RAM price not deter DApps from doing Airdrops?
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:27]
[In reply to CTurns]
It will change market dynamics
BXB Chain, [03.07.18 12:28]
@daniellarimer - when I query the rammarket contract I get a weight of 0.5 it seems like that weight is not being used to calculate price. I am using ram_price = connector_balance / (ram_outstanding_supply * onnector_weight)
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:29]
[In reply to BXB Chain]
Weight hard coded to .001 I think. Check code
Nic, [03.07.18 12:29]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
So all 21 bps currently have at least 64Gb of ram? Sorry just want to learn how ram works.
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:30]
[In reply to Nic]
Yep
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:30]
All 1000 full nodes should as well or performance degrades for them
Franco, [03.07.18 12:30]
The commissions due to ram trading will be almost enough to counter inflation right? I see the volume is over a billion dollars!
Roland, [03.07.18 12:31]
[In reply to Digital Credit]
Feels more like EOS Plutonium
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:31]
[In reply to Franco]
-2% annual inflation if volume holds
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:32]
[In reply to Roland]
Soon to be available in every corner drug store. But in 2018 it’s a little hard to come by.
Nic, [03.07.18 12:34]
Ic thx for the info. Now I know. I think bps candidates could published the amount of ram they could contribute so voters can vote knowing their contribution to the network other than what tools they developed. I think ram will limit new developers to join the EOS community cuz ram cost.
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:35]
[In reply to Nic]
Amortization Cory’s is nothing for high value dapps
https://t.me/eosram/10855
Nic, [03.07.18 12:46]
[In reply to ac]
Sorry but I do not see ram trading is a killer app...a killer app is when grandma can use it. Ram trading is us small community
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:47]
[In reply to Nic]
How many real user of ram market vs crypto kitties
Jacob Davis, [03.07.18 12:48]
Why not allocate RAM in the same way CPU and Network is allocated? What am I missing?
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:48]
[In reply to Jacob Davis]
Used ram cannot be freed
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:49]
Until contract is done
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:49]
Bandwidth is emfremeral
Stefanos Ioannou, [03.07.18 12:49]
In which phase are we? Did we accept there is an issue on RAM yet or are we waiting for more drama and problems?
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:50]
[In reply to Stefanos Ioannou]
Did you accept free market
BXB Chain, [03.07.18 12:51]
@daniellarimer - you mentioend that short premium names may be sold more often than once per day, is that going to require a referendum
Daniel Larimer, [03.07.18 12:51]
[In reply to BXB Chain]
Yes
https://t.me/eosram/10957
7月4日
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 07:46]
We can reduce the volatility of ram market by tweaking a few bancor parameters. We are also doing benchmarks on performance of paging to disk.
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 07:47]
I remain committed to bringing down price and increasing supply
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 07:47]
While maintaining market based pricing
Falling Water, [04.07.18 07:48]
I like team grey mass solution number 1
Falling Water, [04.07.18 07:49]
personally
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 07:49]
[In reply to Falling Water]
??
John McCoffee, [04.07.18 07:49]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
have you seen greymasses write up? im not smart enough to understand if its a good idea :) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UmJ2LVPhVEshyzj1xI15kLJi4pYt8Ls9bPZWiwDnSHM/edit#heading=h.eukfeyebnrnh
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 07:50]
[In reply to John McCoffee]
Bad idea
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 08:01]
We tested bancor to 99% today. Did lots of double checking on code
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 08:02]
Current code
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 08:03]
Main lesson learned only a small percentage can realize gains in a panic sell.
da Lexx, [04.07.18 08:05]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
what about to reduce the fees ?
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 08:05]
We can reduce volatility
Ben W, [04.07.18 08:06]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
what are your thoughts on the alternate eosram markets springing up like otcbtc.com?
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 08:06]
[In reply to Ben W]
They will have less liquidity
Ben W, [04.07.18 08:07]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
will they rob liquidity from this market?
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 08:07]
No
Wei, [04.07.18 08:07]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
How to do that?
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 08:09]
[In reply to Wei]
We will release a proposal for community to consider. Including plans for scaling beyond physical ram with new high performance ssd.
Micheal Leo, [04.07.18 08:13]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
Hi Daniel, we like the current RAM market, it's a real free maket and perfect, could you help to protect it? And we expect a stable policy, no frequently changes in a short term. You know Chinese stock market? Everyone lose money because the policy is always changing and many fake news. We like current RAM maket.
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 08:20]
[In reply to Micheal Leo]
I agree. Stable. Minimum volatility. Sustainable growth.
BXB Chain, [04.07.18 08:22]
There is a fixed supply of RAM -- not a free market
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 08:23]
[In reply to BXB Chain]
There is dynamic supply control by community via their elected producers.
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 08:23]
Token holders control.
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 08:25]
They only control two things. System buyback of ram via market maker and supply of ram.
Evan Huang, [04.07.18 08:25]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
is 20% ram increase per year by system smart contract still a valid plan?
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 08:25]
[In reply to Evan Huang]
It will be guided by actual tech viability
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 08:26]
If we find ssd paging viable we can have cheaper ram.
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 08:26]
Artificial scarcity and protection of ram price is not the goal of policy.
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 08:27]
Ram is not a token to speculate on.
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 08:28]
Ram price will be driven by supply and demand. Market maker acts for benefit of system not ram holders.
Michael L, [04.07.18 08:29]
@daniellarimer —- If side chains are 3-6 months out because of IBC, and increased RAM won't be introduced for at least weeks because of a large initiative needed from all nodes to increase, how will the price of RAM go down in the short term?
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 08:30]
[In reply to Michael L]
Everyone is free to speculate on price, but only obligation to ram holders is storage space in contracts. Not price.
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 08:32]
For record I have never bought not sold ram.
Jesse, [04.07.18 08:32]
Dan, you seem to have a slightly different perspective today than the past few days, as someone who is a big fan of EOS and wants to see it gain dominance as something more then a ram market, I sincerely appreciate it
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 08:33]
[In reply to Jesse]
I spent all day working on solutions
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 08:35]
We can add order book on top
Roland, [04.07.18 09:56]
Virtual RAM is a great solution cos most of the ram reserved are not used anyway
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 09:57]
[In reply to Roland]
Big observation is that cpu will get billed to users who cause thrashing
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 09:58]
Which will minimize their ability to hurt network
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 09:59]
Also many opportunities to optimize memory layout
Roland, [04.07.18 10:00]
I heard SSDs are getting faster too
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 10:00]
Yes
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 10:01]
Today I learned of Intel cpu with 64gb on chip cache.
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 10:01]
Built for miners
https://t.me/eosram/16185
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 23:51]
Sudden increases in RAM supply represent inefficient distribution of new supply by the system contract and will extract less tokens from the market than could be extracted over time. The impact of less efficient extraction is a loss of revenue to the market maker and an increase in long-term volatility caused by a less-well-funded market maker.
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 23:51]
based upon this, the interests of the block producers, the community, and RAM speculators are aligned
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 23:52]
I am not "fooling" anyone, I am communicating information as I process it
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 23:56]
I'm preparing a blog with complete analysis
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 23:56]
increasing RAM prior to complete analysis would be a mistake
Daniel Larimer, [04.07.18 23:57]
Blockchains have been struggling to scale since the introduction of Bitcoin. The recent price spikes in the EOS RAM market indicate that the market believes RAM is worth $4 per KB given current supply. This is a STRONG market signal that providing more RAM would be very valuable.
Dapp developers face two costs when building their system.
The cost of interacting with the blockchain
The cost of hosting a full node
Keeping RAM scarce (64 GB) lowers the cost of hosting a full node, but increases the cost of interacting with the blockchain. So much so that deploying a typical smart contract (which uses 10MB of RAM) costs about 40,000 at today’s RAM prices. A developer attempting to build a social media platform will likely want to host at least one full node of their own. For them, spending39K on high-end hardware with sufficient RAM and $1K on for storing their contract in RAM is “break even”.
Micheal Leo, [04.07.18 23:59]
@daniellarimer The RAM market is not just a EOS dapp demo now, the most important is, it introduces a new market method which I think has great significance for us.
Roland, [04.07.18 23:59]
RAM trading dapp is bringing alot of users to EOS
Roland, [05.07.18 00:00]
perhaps more products can be traded using this tech?
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 00:00]
yes
wang qang, [05.07.18 00:01]
https://steemit.com/eos/@bancor-network/a-proposed-solution-to-eos-ram-allocation
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 00:03]
[In reply to wang qang]
Removing EOS from the market maker will only increase volatility as the market maker doesn't set the price of RAM, it responds to the market price of RAM.
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 00:09]
RAM is not about artificial scarcity.
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 00:23]
https://medium.com/@bytemaster/eosio-ram-market-bancor-algorithm-b8e8d4e20c73
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 00:26]
it was in reference to the hardware market
SID, [05.07.18 00:34]
ram will not be increased for a long duration as dan said
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 00:35]
[In reply to SID]
I don't decide and always reserve right to change opinion
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 00:35]
https://medium.com/@bytemaster/eosio-ram-market-bancor-algorithm-b8e8d4e20c73
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 00:39]
the 50% parameter is far more tested than the .05% parameter
https://t.me/eosram/20967
Michael L, [05.07.18 00:57]
[In reply to Thanatos]
Agreed, but FUNDAMENTAL changes are being randomly suggested and then discarded every 2 days.... I expect more stability from such an influential member of the community, not simply flip-flopping drastically at his will.
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 00:57]
[In reply to Michael L]
Did you ever consider that this is a conversation where I learn by my interactions
Mostafa Nazar, [05.07.18 00:58]
dan what is your sugestion for the rate of new ram supply per block?
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 00:59]
[In reply to Mostafa Nazar]
I think 1 tb per year until ram price falls below server costs for typical dapp
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 00:59]
Subject to technical analysis
Alpha Seeker, [05.07.18 01:00]
whoa 1TB per year now?
Alpha Seeker, [05.07.18 01:00]
RIP ram holders
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 01:01]
Community will have to decide
Roland, [05.07.18 01:01]
[In reply to Daniel Larimer]
1TB includes Virtual memory right?
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 01:01]
Yes
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 01:02]
If we run into tech problems producers can reset ram rate until resolved.
https://t.me/eosramprice/37274
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 07:51]
I think BTS 2.0 will come first... building blocks and all
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 08:00]
no, not related to old BTS... will use EOS as collateral and should pay fees to EOS staked token holders (if the community likes the idea)
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 08:01]
it would be .1% trading fee
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 08:05]
Steem 2.0 needs BTS 2.0 for its token(s)...
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 08:08]
FYI... the exchange + margin trading has been in plain sight for months
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 08:09]
https://github.com/EOSIO/eos/tree/master/contracts/exchange
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 08:09]
it isn't quite ready, but is 90% there
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 08:10]
going to polish it up this week
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 08:16]
Oh, I think I have finally solved the pegged token problem. Bancor is magic :)
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 08:17]
I have working proof-of-concept code for pegged token (BitUSD 2.0)
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 08:18]
no forced settlement, high liquidity, self-recollateralizing, shorts earn income from trading fees
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 08:18]
market maker automatically follows the 24 hr avg price feed
Daniel Larimer, [05.07.18 08:40]
see guys, I fixed the RAM market without writing a line of code... ;)
ZB，火币开放提现，是昨天还是前天吧，刚开始有限额1000eos
7月7日
okex开放充提，限额500eos
Daniel Larimer, [07.07.18 01:34]
if you had a derivitvive that followed the 24hr median price of RAM but had 50% lower trading fees and could be transfered, lent, borrowed, etc... and had to choose to buy real RAM or DRAM
Daniel Larimer, [07.07.18 01:34]
which would you chose
Daniel Larimer, [07.07.18 01:35]
yes, market will still set price of RAM
7月9日
chaince开放ram交易，chainceonram，ramonchaince两个账号
big今天12点也会开放，延迟5小时，，，pxnramtrader ，，，充值pxneosincome
7月10日
EOS-RAM自动交易代码
https://github.com/wangweiX/eosram-trading-robot
everipediaiq eparticlectr IQ的两个账号
7月12日
https://medium.com/@bytemaster/a-three-step-plan-for-lowering-eos-account-creation-costs-c3bf1ec736b7
7月16日
chainceoneos
https://block.one/news/block-one-closes-strategic-investment-round-led-by-peter-thiel-and-bitmain/
7月26日
EOSAuthority发起了一个增加RAM的提案，正在等在投票。该提案提议在当前64GB的基础上增加可用的RAM，每出一个区块增加1kbRAM。目前有12个节点投了赞成票。一共获得15个赞成票后，提案便能通过。
投票情况查询请戳：
https://eosauthority.com/approval/view?scope=argentinaeos&name=1dot1dotzero&from=groupmessage
相关网址：
http://eos-bp-votes.dapptools.info/s/api/block-producer-votes-stack-html/1/30
http://eos.host/mainnet
http://eosflare.io/
https://eosflare.io/bidname
http://www.eosportal.io
https://explorer.eoseco.com/
https://eospark.com/
http://vote.eostat.io/vote/
https://eostracker.io/
https://www.myeoskit.com/#/vote
http://dev.cryptolions.io/mainnet/
http://eosnetworkmonitor.io/
https://eosauthority.com/voting
https://eoscountdown.com/
https://scaneos.io/
https://eosmonitor.io/ram
https://votetracker.eosmedi.com/#/
https://www.eosbeijing.one/data/#
https://eosmeta.io/statistics
https://www.feexplorer.io/EOS_RAM_price
https://www.marketstackd.io/ramcalculator.html
https://www.marketstackd.io/ramrichlist.html
https://dapp.mytokenpocket.vip/ram/index.html
http://eosfavor.com/ram322
https://eosweb.net/
http://ram.coinwhitebook.com/
https://buyeosram.io/
http://southex.com/
http://eosacknowledgments.io/
https://github.com/EOSIO/eos/issues/3189
https://toolkit.genereos.io/tools
https://eostoolkit.io/
https://eosfans.io/
ram价格推算表：https://www.tubiaoxiu.com/p/s/29f32f33b1ab9cd8.html#/
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1O3rPlq0GCOopljSEsQmlYws_w4LmhhJ-wvsnWztnFE8/htmlview#
EOS主网EOS持有量排名前1000个账号Only one APP
https://www.eternum.io/ipfs/QmTfhG3TkEBQo1Kg3DGSXerkRWP94f1XKboo8sLArzpj1y
EOS主网RAM持有量TOP3000：https://www.eternum.io/ipfs/Qmdimzfmzt572Nmrdk19r2axLFSQsLsYafgeDXxogUVkjj
玩转EOS，你要的资源全在这里了！：https://bihu.com/article/761325
https://steemit.com/eos/@eosnodeone/a-thought-on-ram-squatting-problem
https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@eosgo/breakdown-of-eos-resource-allocation-video-w-dan-larimer
BM推荐书单：http://bytemaster.github.io/article/2015/01/10/Recommended-Reading/
白皮书：
https://github.com/EOSIO/Documentation/blob/master/TechnicalWhitePaper.md
中文翻译版：
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzAxMjMzMDg4OA==&mid=2650539266&idx=1&sn=5ceb18eeed24891c106b64e35cd9f7d7
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如果你有更好的数据提供，欢迎发给我，我会整理到之后的更新中，也会发一些Candy表示感谢。
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2018-06-15 L
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